Tuesday, December 25, 2007

So, You Want To Be A Dentist?

This one's for all budding dentists to be who are currently doing their BDS, DDS, LDS etc..and wish to come back to work in Malaysia. ( This applies to Malaysian citizens ONLY. Non Malaysians, ask and I'll post a different entry.. if I have the time and feel like doing so)

Well, I consider this as a service to the Malaysian dental community.

Someone named 'faez' posted a comment on my latest entry asking about working as a dentist in Malaysia. I hope this will answer your questions.

First and foremost, you must make sure that your degree is recognised by the Malaysian Dental Council. If it is not.. I don't see the point of you coming back. There are several types of registration and some requires you to be a trainee dentist first before you can fully register.

Well, I hope my past experience is still valid but this was what I had to go through , not so long ago.

I first headed to the Public Service Department to get a recognition letter for my DDS. If you are a scholarship holder, they will also hand you a letter saying how many years you have to serve the country or more popularly know as 'bond to the government'.

And then, together with the PSD letter and other documents like your original degree, translation of your degree if it is not in Malay or English , mykad,.. shoot.. I don't remember what else, ...?? Nevermind that, you can always call the MDC and ask. Well with the original documents, a copy of each documents which have been verified by any penghulu or government servants grade U41 and above , any govt dentist can do this for you, and postal order/money order of mm RM 150?? ( you have to reconfirm all these details later ok?), now you can go and register yourself as a dentist.

And of course you have to apply to work for the government through the Public Service Commission. You can also apply through the internet. Then , they will call you for interview. In my case, I called and asked for the nearest date available for interview.

Make sure you are well prepared for the interview. Some people think dentists are badly needed in the country they came to the interview unprepared. And guess what, they failed the interview.

That was the easy part.

Now please read carefully what I am about to write next. This is very important and please hammer all these facts into your head and never let it leave you or you will be in deep trouble.

Please be aware that dentists and dental practice in this country shall abide by certain rules and regulations. And one of the most important one for newly registered dentist is- the dental act 1971 with amendment in 2001 clearly stating that all dentists who are registered in Malaysia after June 2001 ( I don't remember the exact date) shall go through compulsory service for the period of 3 years, uninterrupted. Read: once you have registered, you must start service immediately and you can't break the service and serve the government continuously for 3 years unless you have a written permission from the Minister of Health. That also means that you can only pursue your post graduate studies AFTER the 3 years. And if you are granted unpaid leaves due to unavoidably strong reasons, your compulsory service term will be extended to the same year, months and days of the unpaid leaves that you take.

If you fail to abide by this rule, your name will be struck off from the register which means, by law, you can't practise in this country anymore. Well of course the MDC people will try their best to hunt you down and persuade you to finish you 3 years compulsory service. Oh yeah.. when I say compulsory service, that means you are to work for the Ministry of Health only. If you wish to work for other Government agencies like the armed forces or the universities, you will have to ask the permission of the Director General of Health first. Please do not blindly work at especially the universities without a written permission from the DG!

After you can accept the fact that you have to serve the government non stop for 3 years, now come the 2nd thing that you really have to pay attention to.

Posting.

I have been told by a reliable source that dental officers are being treated too nicely when it comes to first posting. According to the source, if it is a medical officer, she will not even be asked to name 3 states she that she prefers to be transfered too. They just post her to wherever there is a vacant post.

So, far, for dental officers, (dentists in the public service are called dental officers)
well, dental officers are usually asked to name 3 states that she hopes/wishes to be posted to. Her posting will be considered based on a lot of things.. priority is of course the necessity then the officer's welfare like family, health and so on so forth. But sometimes you just can't satisfy everybody. Somebody has to go and serve other states beside KL, Selangor, N9, Perak, Penang, Melaka & Johor. And if that somebody happens to be you, please... for god sake, just go! It's not like you are going to be there forever, you can always ask for a transfer later. And I think it is wise not to use politics and start pulling strings ( or the more famous malay phrase for it.. 'main cable') to get the place that you want. Imagine this, if everyone starts pulling.. then things won't move also right?

Just some points to ponder upon.

  • A lot of public dentists are female
  • Of those female dentists, a lot of them are married.
  • Of those married female dentists, most of their husbands are working /staying in the Klang Valley.

Go figure.

Once you are posted, you are required to fill in some log books. We do not have housemanship but we have a First Year Dental Officer Programme or FYDO where you must do or observe certain procedures and get signatures from the supervising dental specialists. Usually, you will have to be attached to specialists available in your state on rotation basis,for the period of about one year.

The first 3 years might seem tough to some but once you have managed to go through it, then there are quite a lot of things the government can offer which the private do not have.
But of course there are lots and lots of things to consider before we make the next move.
But, no need to worry about that, finish the compulsory service first. Nothing beats the experience you get from the compulsory service, seriously.

Anyway I wish all of you guys all the best in your studies and don't forget to also have fun while doing so.

Life is not just about Dentistry and Dentistry alone.

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27 comments:

ryosukida said...

thanx,akak..nanti kite sebarkan kat kawan2 kat cni..

Naa said...

u'r welcome

Anonymous said...

hi naa, thanks for the info. was a very nice summary. will be going for an interview with the public service commission soon, any tips of wat to look out for? Thanks heaps!

Naa said...

sure this is not the first interview of your life time right? so, just, well, do the usuals.. dress properly ...if u r a guy, don't wear t shirts.. and no matter how ridiculously hot malaysia is, don't forget your necktie.. and if u r a girl, don't dress too sexy , and a shoe with a bit of heels, an inch maybe, would look.. more professional than flat ones.. ( says one of my bosses), read sumthin 'bout the govt, know your country's dental public health a bit like oral health status maybe , and since u r fresh from dental college ( i suppose..) so, u need not to worry 'bout things dental. be confident but at the same time, don't forget to be polite and down to earth. And i think the next one does not only apply to interviews but to all conversations in general. Try your best to speak in the language u r spoken to. And I don't think so they will speak other than either English or Malay to you, so you don't have to rush to the nearest store to buy the latest russian or korean dictionary... *wink*

all the best!

ps: hope i'm not too late with the tips ( if they can be called so..)

Anonymous said...

hi again :) thanks for ur help :)
just got told tat interview won't be till 2 weeks later.. bummer...that means posting won't be till the earliest a month's time? man... i wish things could be faster... n no locumming work too :( sigh, i suppose i should be happy that i get a longer holiday, rite? sorry for complaining on ur blog.

Anonymous said...

Dear Kak,
I read your article with interest as I am about to graduate from UK being a dentist this summer 2008. Thanks for the excellent summary.
I've got some questions that I would like to ask you as I couldn't find it in any of the website that you've suggested:
a)What is the average salary of a gov dentist? Does the recent announcement of salary increment to the medics also include dentist?
b) Are there things like CPD or study days during the compulsory service?
c)Waht are the chances of doing a further postgraduate stuidies locally or overseas after the compulsory service?
I would be very grateful if you could provide me these answers when you have free time, my email is jacinta2248@yahoo.co.uk.

Naa said...

hi jacinta.. ( i assume that ur name is jacinta.. )
anyway,

the answers to ur questions

a) not much compared to the private sector... but i think it's much better than when i started service not so long ago. With all the allowances.. it's about... almost or over 4k (gross).. depending on where you are and where do you do your calls.. if u'r fr peninsular and works in sabah or sarawak, u'll get more ( and vice versa) and if u'r the only one doing calls at that place, u can get up to 1.5 k for on-call allowance alone..

b) CPD yes.. study days? explain study days to me..
depending on where u r.. ( again.. well.. being in such a big organization like the govt.. where u r and who ur immediate boss is, is extremely important... sometimes, the change of an immediate boss may mean a change from heaven to hell ( and vice versa of course..). I have experienced a boss who really valued CPD and insisted on having a well planned CPDs throughout the year for everybody.. and i have also experienced a boss who just didn't give a damn. It's just .. luck.. i guess..

c) Chances are... fair for everybody.. but if you and the other candidates are equally qualified for the scholarships and they do not have enuff place.. then, seniority counts. I am assuming you want to know about the scholarship... but if you are willing to pay for your own studies.. then, there shudn't be any problem..

well, hope that helps..

Anonymous said...

Hello Naa!

This is a very informative post. Thank you very much, I'll be sure to pass it on to all my colleagues. I'm currently finishing my third year at AIMST University, Sungai Petani.

I've heard a lot about this posting issue but I don't know how credible my sources are..

I know this might sound juvenile, but I'd really like to get posted to Johor Bahru as my boyfriend will be doing his 3 years of government bond with Singapore. This will all change lah if things don't go well. But as for now, Johor (preferably Johor Bahru) is where I'm eyeing. :)

I'm from Selangor.. so does that increase my chances or does the government not take any of these things into consideration?

I'm under the impression that Johor would not be as sought after as KL or Penang... am I just being naive?

Anonymous said...

hi there, it's indeed informative. Do you have any idea for non Malaysians who is foreign-trained? Is it compulsory for them to be 'bonded' to the government for 3 years?

Madame E said...

hi there.
just wondering if foreign trained dentists are supposed to do the 3 year government bond thing as well if they're non Malaysians?

Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Dear naa,
hello, Hasan here, read ur whole post and found it very helpful, further I want to bother U by asking little more,
NOTE : I have done my BDS from PAKISTAN, this year i.e. 2009
1. In ur one comment U said appox salery for a dental officer is around RM4000, so do they provide and accomodation for a (Married person Accomodation)
2. and If some one wants to serve in Armed Forces wt r other facilities thay provide,
3. My email ID is (hassanfurqan@hotmail.com) kindly send my ur email address for further discussion/Help, if U dont mind.
Regards,
Hassan

Naa said...

hi people... sorry for the long wait..

Jayelle- it's all about luck and timing.. some may say "cable" as well.. but this string u r pulling... may cause a lot of people to suffer... which i don't want to go into details right now..

Eileen- doesn't matter where u r trained.. once u r registered with the MDC, u have to serve for 3 years, without break.

Hassan- Check with the MDC whether ur UNIVERSITY.. and not your country is recognised or not. Don't ask me.. i won't know. If it is recognised, then only u can apply for work.. But, as far as i know, if u have no work experience, they won't entertain...Please contact MDC or OHD (links are given) for further info

Unknown said...

hai read ur information on dentist to practice in malaysia.i have completed B.D.S from a college not recogonised by the malaysian dental council.i would like to know if i have any options to practice in malaysia if i get married to a malaysian citizen.

Anonymous said...

hi Naa,
am a dentist frm india.i read ur info about job in ministry of health,malaysia.can i have the procedure for non malaysians.and if you have any idea about the pay for dental officers can you just tell me.i kindly request you to guide me.thanks in advance.

Unknown said...

helo everyone.My question is the same as what kalpana wanted to know.My college is also not recognised by the malaysian dental council.So what are the procedures to follow to be able to work there?Do we have to appear for a written exam by d dental council or is there any other course?Someone please do help.

Naa said...

kalpana and lakshmi.. only MDC can answer your question. That's way beyond my capacity. I don't want to be giving wrong info on legal matters. However, if it is not recognised, you can only wait for it to be recognised because as far as I know, they only recognise a place when the government wants to send Malaysians to study there.

Naa said...

An yes.. when a college is not recognised, you can't work here. Period.

Unknown said...

hi this is nikhil from india and my college is recognised by the malaysian dental council.
i want to know what my initial pay would be as a fydo in the compulsory 3 years training..
please tell me in ringits per month and also if accomodation is provided..
what could be the average expenditure for me and my spouse...

Naa said...

hi nikhil..

your starting pay will be determined by the ministry of health. You have to remember that you won't be regarded as permanent officer but contract officer. Which means, you won't be registered with the council, but you will be given temporary practising certs from time to time to practise. when your contract with the government is over, no temporary practising cert will be given to you anymore. The 3 years compulsory service is only for Malaysian Citizens, registered as dental practitioner in Malaysia. As for accommodation, if you are the only dentist in the clinic and they have a house for dental officer, most probably you'll be asked to stay at the government house. But it is not the responsibility of the government to provide you with accommodotion. Your pay should be enough to cover all expenses. And please remember, Malaysia needs contract officers at places where it is hard to send Malaysians. So, do expect to be posted to rural areas away from Kuala Lumpur and other big cities in the country. If you do get posted in a city.. just consider yourself very, very, very lucky.

Unknown said...

Thank you for the response... What exactly is a temporary certificate..and what is the scope for me after 3 years of government posting..can i then apply for permanent registration ...what options are available to practice in malaysia after 3 years me training...my college is one me the thirteen indian colleges recognised by mdc under section 12(1)...i am a little confused..nikhil

Naa said...

nikhil,

go to the Malaysian dental council website and ask them all your questions. I have no right to answer on their behalf. Don't know where to find? reread my post or just google.

Anonymous said...

dear naa,
wanted to ask, m husband has got admission in usm in kota bharu for masters, im also a dentist, could you plz tell me, is kubang kerian considered a rural area, my college is degree is recognized by mdc. i also have 3 children , any idea what are the monthly estimate charges of day care centers there??plz plz plz reply soon,
thanks,
anonymous mom

Anonymous said...

dear naa,
wanted to ask, m husband has got admission in usm in kota bharu for masters, im also a dentist, could you plz tell me, is kubang kerian considered a rural area, my college is degree is recognized by mdc. i also have 3 children , any idea what are the monthly estimate charges of day care centers there??plz plz plz reply soon,
thanks,
anonymous mom

Mike said...

Hi naa... i would like to know about the scholarship scheme but i dunno u can help or not...this is because i'm a jpa scholar now studying dentistry in Aimst university...i have to bond 10 yrs with the government rite? but does this 10 yrs include the 3 yrs compulsory service? and because mine 1 is PIDN not the overseas scholarship, the bonding isit the same with those overseas scholar?

Stchong said...

Hi naa... i would like to know about the scholarship scheme but i dunno u can help or not...this is because i'm a jpa scholar now studying dentistry in Aimst university...i have to bond 10 yrs with the government rite? but does this 10 yrs include the 3 yrs compulsory service? and because mine 1 is PIDN not the overseas scholarship, the bonding isit the same with those overseas scholar?

Chuan. said...

hi, i'm not a dentist but i'm actually looking to employ a dentist as i want to open a dental clinic. any idea what's the best way to go about this as i've tried advertising but can't seem to get any responses. perhaps you guys might have better ideas or know of any dentists who are qualified for private practice and are looking for employment. dental clinic will be in kl. really appreciate any replies or suggestions to the above. my email is yee_chuan25@yahoo.com.

Naa said...

Oh my god, it's been almost 5 years... I truly apologise to everyone whom I did not respond.
A lot of thing happened and to cut it short. I quit the Ministry of Health in April 2009. I now work for one of the public university in KL and because of that I seriously don't know what is going on anymore. If you seriously wish to have an up to date and accurate answer, please do not hesitate to email the Malaysian Dental Council or the Oral Health Division, Ministry of Health Malaysia. They normally will answer you. Give them a few days (sometimes weeks) to answer you back.. That's what I always do when I want to know some info that is not available on their websites.

Anyway, considering the overwhelming number of questions coming from you guys, which I am flattered actually to be trusted so much by so many of you.. ;) I am considering writing a post on dental qualifications and dental schools in our country. When? Now that, I think you know where my biggest problem lies.... I hope I remember to do it. Till then,